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We have a powerful new episode to share with you! This week, Doris Swift welcomes the incredible Mary DeMuth—author of over 50 books, literary agent, artist, podcaster, and global speaker—who shares her story and wisdom on finding freedom, healing, and joy through surrender.
Here’s what you’ll find in this inspiring conversation:
✨ The Freedom of Surrender Mary opens up about her latest devotional, The Freedom of Surrender: 40 Devotions for a Joyful Life in Christ. She shares how her journey with art, Lent, and letting go of daily struggles became a lifeline and ministry for others. Her artwork (featured throughout the book!) makes this devotional extra special.
🌱 Healing from Church Hurt and Trauma Mary connects deeply with listeners struggling with church hurt, grief, or past trauma. With practical encouragement, she reminds us that “an untold story never heals,” and offers her gentle approach to lament, processing pain with God, and finding safe spaces for healing.
🤝 Community & Connection Both Doris Swift and Mary DeMuth highlight how genuine community can be the remedy for pain received in broken relationships. For those feeling lonely or unseen, Mary shares hope and a prayer that God will bring needed friendships into your life.
✍️ For Writers and Creatives Are you a writer or aspiring author? Mary gives a behind-the-scenes look at what it takes to be represented by a literary agent and her journey writing across genres. If you’re interested in publishing, she offers a three-legged-stool framework: platform, writing ability, and unique ideas.
🎨 Bonus! Free Art for Your Soul Mary is generously offering free downloadable lock-screens featuring her original art from The Freedom of Surrender. Sign up for her email list at marydemuth.com/surrender to receive yours and find encouragement in your inbox.
🎧 Don’t Miss Out Whether you’re seeking healing, longing for joy, looking for creative inspiration, or simply needing to feel less alone, this episode will encourage your heart. And if you haven’t yet, check out Mary’s “Pray Every Day” podcast for daily scripture and prayer!
▶️ [Listen to the episode now] (insert your episode link here) 🖼️ Grab your free art lock screens here
Let us know what touched your heart most—we love to hear from you! Stay tuned for more faith-filled encouragement, and remember: your story matters and you are never alone.
We’re talking about this amazing book and more!
Connect with Mary!
Mary loves Jesus. And really that’s the most important thing about her. It’s not writing or speaking or praying or mommying or any other -ing you can find. She flat out loves Him. Why? Because he has utterly, truly, completely re-storied her.
She has three adult children, and she’s been married to Patrick for 33 years now. Mary counts those relationships as the most important people in her life. In the mid 2000s, their family helped plant a church in Southern France–a difficult, but amazing experience.
In her spare (ha!) time, she loves to cook, run, garden, decorate, paint, and do interior design. You can find all her artwork here.
She’s been writing for 30+ years–half of them in obscurity. She mentored many writers during that time, and continues to do so through the Rockwall Christian Writers Group and some of her instructional books. Since then she has written over 52 books, translated into five languages. You can see a listing of all her books on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, CBD, Lifeway and Parable.
Mary pioneered a literary agency in 2022, Mary DeMuth Literary, where she shepherds writers toward traditional publishing.
She currently lives in North Texas, serves in her local church alongside her husband, and she’s had the privilege of speaking around the world in places like Johannesburg, Monaco, Geneva, Munich, Port-au-Prince, Nice, and Florence. Although her past story is difficult, her current story leaks adventure.
Not only has Mary been restored and restoried, but she longs to see the same for you. You no longer have to live haunted. I believe your new story starts today. Carl Bard wrote, “Though no one can go back and make a brand-new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand-new ending.”
Paul reminds us of this important truth: “This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!” (2 Corinthians 5:17 NLT).
Living in retrospect is a bad idea. It’s time to heal, be set free, and find the new story God has for you. Mary has experienced God turning her storm into a story, moving her from a bitter story into a bigger one. Won’t you join her on the adventure?
What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?
Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/
Let’s Stay Connected!
Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage!
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Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2026!
Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event…
Thanks for Listening!
I hope this episode encouraged, inspired, and challenged you to cultivate community, live and walk in the value, purpose, and worth God gave you, and take action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.
If you’re looking for a speaker for your next women’s conference, retreat, luncheon, or workshop, reach out and connect with me on my speaker page at https://www.womenspeakers.com/florida/edgewater/speaker/doris-swift
Let’s have a chat about your next event!
Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.
Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.
I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …
Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.
With love and joy,
Doris
Transcript
Doris [00:01:51]:
What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan. And his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal, it might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award winning six week Bible study, Surrender the Joy. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you.
Doris Swift [00:02:31]:
And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within. Using personal and biblical stories I share, how you can identify your joy stealers, Surrender them to God, Reawaken the joy within and share the joy with others. You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the joy stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back.
Doris Swift [00:03:05]:
Welcome back to the show. Today I am very excited to welcome my friend, Mary DeMuth. She is an amazing woman of God and she has written over 50 books and she’s been a writer for over 30 years and those books have been translated into like seven different languages, so that’s pretty powerful. And through her podcast Pray Every Day, and her speaking events around the globe, she seeks to help people hear, heal from past trauma, and live restoried lives as followers of Jesus. She’s also a mentor for writers and she developed Mary demeth literary in 2022. And she’s also an artist, a magnificent artist that God has really gifted her. I have purchased many of her different, you know, her calendars and cards and things like that. Very beautiful.
Doris Swift [00:03:55]:
And her inspiration comes from seasons of Lent spent prayerfully and she creates these small scale art pieces based on scripture. So you’ll see scripture throughout the art and it’s kind of really like all part of the art, which is really cool. It’s not just like a scripture at the bottom or at the top. It’s like in the art itself. So that is really, really wonderful. And she currently lives in Texas with her family and she is here to talk about her newest book, which I’m excited to hear more about, which is the freedom of surrender. 40 devotions for a Joyful life in Christ. Welcome to the show, Mary.
Doris Swift [00:04:34]:
It’s great to have you.
Mary DeMuth [00:04:35]:
Well, that was just the nicest introduction ever and it is so good to be here today.
Doris Swift [00:04:39]:
Oh, well, thank you so much. And that introduction in no way Covers all the things that. All the things. Mary demuth, you know, lots of layers there over the years. You’ve been in ministry for so long, and before we started recording, I was just talking about how I think I started kind of following your ministry way back, maybe before 2010. And so, because I think the first book I purchased of yours was then Places, which was your memoir. And that was really powerful book and testimony, and you continue to help others. And through, you know, since then, you’ve also experienced so many different things that you have had to come to surrender.
Doris Swift [00:05:22]:
And we just need to hear more about that. So as I ask all my guests how you’re taking action, where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect, what would you say to that, Mary? And how does this new book kind of intersect with all of that?
Mary DeMuth [00:05:39]:
It’s a terrific question. So I am really passionate about helping people overcome a difficult story. And that story doesn’t have to be childhood. It could be like last year, and. And so my heart is just to walk into those spaces. So I write books and I speak, and I create little pieces of art based on healing and how God can heal us and how he loves to change us and bring us from glory to glory. And we have that potential of healing every day, which sometimes, to be honest, I. I don’t embrace it.
Mary DeMuth [00:06:13]:
I wish I did more. But I do love that he has done so much healing in my own life, and I find it an extreme joy to be a part of else’s healing journey as well.
Doris Swift [00:06:23]:
Yeah, that’s really beautiful. And it is definitely a special calling to want to help people to heal, because there’s so many things that people go through, and grief is something that people go through, and it’s something that it doesn’t necessarily mean they lost a loved one. It could be something else. You know, loss of a church family, loss of a job. I know you’ve been through a lot of those things, and you actually had. You and your husband had a church in France, right? Can you tell us a little bit about that? That’s kind of interesting.
Mary DeMuth [00:06:59]:
Yes. So we were church planters in the south of France for almost three years, and it was a very difficult experience. The food was great, so that was lovely, and the weather was lovely, but it was just a hard experience. Anytime you plant a church, no matter where you’re planting it geographically, you’re going to run into some pretty extreme opposition, because church planting is one of the most known ways for people to meet Jesus, oddly enough. And so there’s going to be some Pushback when you try to do that. So we did that for a couple years, and then we came back home and we were in a large church for a long period of time. And about two years ago, we had to walk away from that church. We had been there for 23 years.
Mary DeMuth [00:07:46]:
And so one of those surrenders, as you kind of mentioned earlier, was surrendering having to leave what we considered our home. And that was hard. That was really hard. One of the hardest things that I’ve gone through in the past several years. So if you’re out there listening and you have had to leave a church or you’ve gone through some church hurt, I. I have a lot of empathy for you because it’s not a normal pain and it takes a long time to get over.
Doris Swift [00:08:15]:
Yeah, thanks for that encouragement and for sharing that, because there are a lot of people, and I’m sure some of our listeners have experienced that at one time or another. And just to, like, have been a part of that church family for so long, it’s almost like it feels like it becomes part of your DNA or something. And, you know, trying to separate from that and just move forward is. Yeah, it takes a lot of healing and just full surrender, like you said.
Mary DeMuth [00:08:48]:
So.
Doris Swift [00:08:49]:
Yeah, that is so important. So what inspired you to write this particular devotional? And if you have it right there, because I’m waiting for my copies and it’s beautiful. Lovely book right there. And so how. What. How did the Lord inspire you to write that? And it has your beautiful artwork in it too.
Mary DeMuth [00:09:12]:
That’s fun thing about it is it not only did I do the COVID but every piece of artwork inside is my original artwork as well. So it’s a full color, a hardback, nice size. It’s actually smaller than most book sizes, so it’s easy to carry around. How it came about was I have been painting for Lent for About the past 10 years or so, and I did that because I saw a commercial artist friend of mine do that, and I thought that that was a lot better than giving up chocolate for Lent. So I’ve always been a doodler. I’ve always been a, um. I have good handwriting and all of that. So I started doing that.
Mary DeMuth [00:09:50]:
My first drawings were not very good, as in anything that we’re trying for the first time. And my first paintings were very amateur, and they still aren’t. I’m not a commercial artist, so I’m. I know I lack a lot, but so I did that for a while where I would just. Whatever I was going through that Year, I would go back through my journal and pull out the scriptures that God taught me things from. So one year it was about church hurts. So I had all my church hurts scriptures, and I illustrated those scriptures. But one year, it was the Lord saying to me, I want you to surrender every day and trust me every day for me to tell you something, to surrender, and then I want you to paint it.
Mary DeMuth [00:10:29]:
I was like, okay, this should be fun. So I did that. And then after I did that, my agent thought this would be an interesting book. And as well, as we were already in a conversation with InterVarsity, and they agreed. And so that’s how this book came about. I had. Interestingly, I was trying to learn how to digitally paint at the time. So when I did it for Lent, I digitally painted using my iPad and procreate.
Mary DeMuth [00:11:02]:
But when we signed the contract, I asked them if they would prefer a digital piece or a physical piece. And so I repainted with a physical paintbrush, 40 paintings. Some of them ended up being different than what I had initially conceived. And so that’s how it all came about.
Doris Swift [00:11:18]:
Yeah, that’s really beautiful, too, because it’s color. And sometimes I think publishers don’t usually put, like, color pictures into books. Is that what you found to Mary as a literary agent?
Mary DeMuth [00:11:33]:
It’s expensive, so of course they don’t. Yes. I’m humbled.
Doris Swift [00:11:39]:
Yeah. Because I know some people who have art in their book, but it’s. It’s black and white, so. So I think that’s really great. And that it was something where each day. So sometimes we think, okay, we’re going to give up something for Lent. You know, what. What will that be? And it doesn’t have to be chocolate, which is very exciting.
Doris Swift [00:12:00]:
I guess sometimes we don’t want to do that. But. But having something every day to surrender and then expressing it in art, that. That is really something where you’re bringing your readers into that with you, which is really something that will not only encourage them, but also challenge them to do the same things. And, you know, you don’t have to be a great artist. You can. You can doodle something or you can actually express it in different ways, like maybe write it out like a. Like in journaling or something like that.
Doris Swift [00:12:35]:
So I think that the whole key is the surrender and that it’s something different every day because that. Yeah, you know, that’s really cool because sometimes we feel like there’s one thing that tends to trip us up or something. You know, we want to surrender. Like, maybe we’ve been praying for something forever, and we’re waiting and waiting and waiting. And that’s the thing where we finally, when we surrender it, we can get that peace. But what is it, what is it like to surrender something different every day, day? What was that like for you, that experience for yourself?
Mary DeMuth [00:13:10]:
Well, I will say that I got a really lovely review recently from a friend of mine, and she put it up on Amazon. I was really grateful. But she also sent me an email and she said, I didn’t realize how much I was bound up. She said, I didn’t realize how much I had to surrender and how anxious I was. And that’s kind of how it was for me as well, where there were so many areas of my life that I was tightly holding onto control and to be able just to kind of open my hands and say, okay, I am going to surrender that difficult relationship that I’ve been praying for for 10 years, and I’m going to trust God that you’re big enough to carry it. Recently, I was teaching a class on healing from the past, and this woman in the class had this really beautiful illustration, and she said, I play catch with Jesus and she takes a physical ball, and when there’s something really bothering her, she just kind of throws it into the air. And watching it go away from her like that, and in, in essence, giving it to the Lord is a reminder not to take it back. And it’s a reminder that God is big enough to catch it.
Mary DeMuth [00:14:21]:
And I think that’s kind of the heart behind the book.
Doris Swift [00:14:26]:
Yeah, well, that’s great. You know how you explained how she did that, where she threw a ball? Because, you know, sometimes you hear people kind of pretend they have a backpack of rocks on their back or different other things, but actually, because in that way, you’re probably just more visualizing just dropping it to the ground, but in this way, she’s throwing it to, you know, to him. So that’s really, really a great visual, too, that we can. We can think about when we want to surrender something and not take it back. So it’s kind of like not necessari. Like you’re playing tennis because that’s a volley or however you call that, or volleyball. Yeah, you don’t want to take it back.
Mary DeMuth [00:15:06]:
No pickleball here.
Doris Swift [00:15:07]:
No pickleball. But. But, you know, that was kind of the heart behind the Bible study that I wrote too, because it’s called Surrender the Joy Stealers Rediscover the Jesus joy in you because it stemmed from women’s event Where I spoke and I had women write down what was threatening to steal their joy that day. Because ultimately our joy really can’t be stolen or lost. You know, we tend to say that, but it can’t be. But what is it like? So reve. And identifying it is so important to name it, to put a name to it. And then the second week is respond.
Doris Swift [00:15:41]:
And how do we respond? We respond through surrender. So you doing these different classes about surrender and what is it you said, like, past trauma, moving through that. Yeah. What does that look like? Because I know you’ve experienced a lot in your life and you share that in your memoir places and in other. In other ways and other times you’ve spoken. So what does that look like when you’re trying to help someone with that?
Mary DeMuth [00:16:11]:
Yeah, I think part of it is going first. And I’m sure that when you’re speaking, you’re doing the same thing. You’re. You’re sharing your story so that someone feels safe and secure enough to share their own and creating the kind of safe environment where they can. I often will tell audiences that an untold story will never heal. You have to get it out. You have to tell someone, and it’s better if you tell it to a safe person. Person.
Mary DeMuth [00:16:34]:
So then I have to kind of back up a little bit and teach about what is a safe person. And. And because I definitely have told my story to unsafe people, and that was a bit disastrous. So when I’m teaching on healing, that’s kind of the. The first thing that I talk about in terms of the surrendering aspect. One of the things that I do with audiences, and I’m going to actually be doing it next week to an audience, is teaching them how to lament and taking them through a lament system Psalm. And how do you name, like you mentioned, name that joy stealer or name that grief, and how do you tell God that grief? And how do you wrestle through it? And how do you come through on the other end praising him, even though it’s still a situation that’s ongoing? And so I walk them through that process, and it has been a really beautiful thing to watch people be set free. And I think a lot of times we just stuff our grief and our pain, and this is a really lovely tool to learn how to surrender it.
Doris Swift [00:17:35]:
Yeah, that is so true. Stuffing grief and pain. So is this something you do in person at various times throughout the year? Do you have any. Any resources on your site that help with that?
Mary DeMuth [00:17:49]:
Yeah, this. These were in person at my church. And so that is really lovely to be able to have a place to teach again. Network. We found a new church, so that’s the end of that story. So that’s lovely. But I also will teach that around the nation, around the world, in different ways when people come and ask me to speak. In fact, I’m teaching soon in Philadelphia, and then I’m on my way to Malawi in Central Africa in a couple weeks to be talking about trauma and healing.
Mary DeMuth [00:18:16]:
So I’m doing it all over the place.
Doris Swift [00:18:18]:
Yeah. Wow. That is like, you know, where. How Jesus tells us, you know, to go to the ends of the earth. And you. That is a fierce calling, Mary. You are.
Mary DeMuth [00:18:27]:
Yes.
Doris Swift [00:18:28]:
You are doing that.
Mary DeMuth [00:18:29]:
Fierce callings.
Doris Swift [00:18:30]:
Tell you what. That is a fierce calling. And. And also when you were talking earlier and you said that an untold story can’t heal, or how did you word that again?
Mary DeMuth [00:18:40]:
Yeah. An untold story never heals. Yeah. It just stays inside of you.
Doris Swift [00:18:44]:
Yeah.
Mary DeMuth [00:18:44]:
So you need to get it out.
Doris Swift [00:18:45]:
Yeah.
Mary DeMuth [00:18:46]:
It’s just so important that I think we’re afraid to. Or we’ve been in Christian spaces so long that we’ve heard. Well, we don’t talk about that here. And we just have to be careful because the more we’re silent, the more everyone is silent, the more we go first, the more people have permission to go ahead and tell their story.
Doris Swift [00:19:06]:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s so true that there’s a stigma surrounding some of the things that women might not feel comfortable sharing. Like in that event where I spoke and I had them write in on little slips of paper, it was all anonymous, so they could write anything they wanted, you know, without fear of judgment or fear that, oh, someone’s not going to, you know, like me anymore. You know, sometimes women will feel like that, like they. They can’t say it out loud because then people won’t want to be around them anymore or won’t like them anymore or we’ll judge them, you know, and so I think it’s so great that you teach about who are the safe people, where are the safe spaces? And really, our churches, some have come a long way, but there’s still a lot to do, a lot of work to do in that area. Right, Mary, how does that work when you. When you help churches in that area, too?
Mary DeMuth [00:20:03]:
Yeah, I think it’s a. It’s a learning curve, for sure. And I am. I’m heartened. I’m seeing a lot more ministry leaders being. Becoming more informed about the pain in the pews and also how the leadership can kind of make it worse. So it’s. It’s fun to see that growth, but sometimes I get discouraged, too, because there is still.
Mary DeMuth [00:20:28]:
I live in the south, so I’m not from the South. You might tell by my voice I’m not a Southerner. But that was one of the hardest things for me to get used to. And I’m. I. I don’t think I’ll ever get used to it. This idea of this kind of all is, well facade, and we’re supposed to keep up appearances. As a Northwest girl, I came from the land of grunge.
Mary DeMuth [00:20:46]:
There are no appearances that we keep. And so the land of grun. It. So it’s weird to me to be in these systems where everyone’s like, everything’s perfect. Everything’s fine. I’m like, no, it’s not. And why can’t we just talk about it?
Doris Swift [00:21:01]:
Yeah. Yeah. Because it’s like, really a false gospel. Like, that’s not really what the world. World, you know, I mean, the word says it’s like, what the world would say, or when we have to act like we’re holding it all together because if we don’t, it means, well, you haven’t prayed enough or you don’t have enough faith or, you know, that kind of thing. But that. That kind of combats the true peace that we can experience when we really live it out and live our true life and share what’s really happening. Because how many times do people ask, you know, how are you? I’m fine.
Doris Swift [00:21:38]:
Everything’s fine. It’s like. But then you have those around you who get to know you and can get close to you that know when something isn’t okay. And so, you know, that’s important to have community and relationships. Can you speak a little bit into that, Mary?
Mary DeMuth [00:22:00]:
Exactly. Well said. Yes. I. We don’t grow in isolation. We only grow in community. And I. It’s unfortunate because most of our wounds are communal wounds.
Mary DeMuth [00:22:11]:
And what wounds usually is what heals us. So if we’re wound, wounded relationally, God often requires a relational cure, which means we have to jump back in. And that’s why it’s important to talk about safe places, because we can be wounded in bad community, but God will call us into good community to heal. Now, sometimes, you know, now that I’m in this church hurt space and talking to a lot of people in that space, sometimes it takes some time to get to that place where you can trust again because you’ve been so violated. And I. I just hold space for that. Because I. I understand it.
Mary DeMuth [00:22:46]:
One thing that you can do in that instance, when you feel like there’s no one you can trust, and especially Christian leaders, then you can tell the Lord everything that you’re hurting and what you’re going through. And if you don’t, if you’re not a writer, you can say it into your phone or you can say it out loud at your bedside with your. You know, when you get on your knees before him and say, I’m mad, those people hurt me. I don’t understand why your church would do that to me. You could have rescued. Rescued me and you didn’t. I mean, the Lord has these amazingly strong shoulders. He already knows your pain, but he wants to experience it alongside you in relationship.
Mary DeMuth [00:23:26]:
And so when you don’t talk about it to him, which is the first step, you are going to have a hard time working through that pain. So you can go to him first and he is safe.
Doris Swift [00:23:36]:
Yeah. So important. Wow, that is such a great reminder, because sometimes we tend to forget to go to him first for things.
Mary DeMuth [00:23:44]:
Things.
Doris Swift [00:23:44]:
You know, sometimes that’s just what we do. Like, you know, we run to. We call somebody on the phone or whatever. And so just being honest with God, because really, I think too, in a lot of churches and maybe how some people were raised, they feel like, well, I need to be in awe. I need to have a fear of God. I need to reverence Him. But yet we see David talking like that in the Psalms, you know, to God, having honest conversations. So I think it’s really great that you brought that out and encouraged someone listening today, that God can handle, you know, what we want to talk with him about, right, Mary? Like, he could take it.
Mary DeMuth [00:24:25]:
He already knows it. So it’s a matter, like I said, a matter of relationship. Just like, if you know that something’s wrong with your child, you already know the whole. All the details of it. And so you don’t want them to come to you so you can find out about it. You already know. You want them to come to you so they can process it with you. And then that is a building of relationship.
Mary DeMuth [00:24:45]:
And that’s how the Lord feels, I would imagine.
Doris Swift [00:24:46]:
Yeah, I think that’s golden right there where you talked about it, like, processing it kind of. Because even sometimes for us, we’re called to, like, a ministry of just listening, like a ministry of presence, just being there. And someone can just talk something out. And we’re not. We’re not wanting to try to help people kind of go in circles and not Move forward in what, you know, their pain is, or continue to, like, rehash things over and over, but. But being able to help them, because all the, you know, solutions they need are in God’s word. And so for you to have that heart, because you’ve been through that, because you’ve experienced that as a child, you know, abuse as a child, and, you know, and now this other loss that you’ve experienced with church hurt, which is more common than we’d like to think. Really?
Mary DeMuth [00:25:37]:
Yes.
Doris Swift [00:25:38]:
So, yeah. So before we get into, like, some other things, I wanted to kind of talk with you about regarding your, you know, your. Your publishing life. What would you say to someone hurting right now who maybe experienced something in their past as a child, maybe some type of abuse or abandonment, or even experiencing that right now, and they’re wondering, God, where are you? What would you say to encourage someone.
Mary DeMuth [00:26:04]:
Mary, as I mentioned before, you know, processing that with him, processing it with someone who’s trusted and safe, and then maybe doing a little exercise. And that is the I was, I am, I will exercise. So, for instance, I could say, when I look back on my childhood, I was abandoned. And then I could say, but today I am seen, known and loved by Jesus. And then the I will be. I will be an agent of noticing for those people in the world that feel unseen. And so there’s this way of just kind of working through what you were, what God is doing today in your heart, and what he is healing. And then that’s going to enable you to do ministry in the future.
Doris Swift [00:26:52]:
Yeah, well, that’s beautiful. And it. And it gives someone some steps to take, to take some kind of action, which, you know, in the beginning of the show, I always say, you know, I know what, what you’re going to share is going to encourage, inspire, and challenge someone listening. Because we do want to take action where our passion, compassion, and conviction intersect and walk in our purpose and calling. But we also need to walk forward as a healthy disciple. And it doesn’t mean we’re going to be perfect or completely healed. You know what? Because God can use us in the midst of our pain, but having those very easy and simple things that are not complicated, you know, to be able to do that and use His Word, you know, as truth. And speaking of His Word, your podcast, pray every day, that’s been going on for a long, long time.
Doris Swift [00:27:43]:
I mean, it’s been such a powerful thing for your listeners, me included, because you read through the Bible. I think you’re like in Jeremiah now or something. In. So you’re reading through the Bible so we can listen to the Bible in your wonderful voice, which probably sounds familiar to a lot of listeners who are listening, and they have that pray every day. But if you don’t subscribe to that podcast, please do. It’s fantastic. And you. So you read the Bible, and then you.
Doris Swift [00:28:14]:
You say, can I pray for you?
Mary DeMuth [00:28:19]:
Yeah. And I’m doing it spontaneously, so I’m not doing any research beforehand. I’m letting the scripture, as I read it hit me in that moment. And then I pray for you according to what I just read, which can be problematic sometimes, especially when you’re pronouncing 800 biblical names and you’re like, what am I going to pray for? About 800 biblical names that I can’t pronounce. But the Lord always gives me something to pray for. And it is a joy to be able to pray for my audience. And it’s been going on about seven years now, and we’re at 6 million listens. And so that’s really exciting to me.
Doris Swift [00:28:52]:
Yeah. Wow. It just goes to show with that many listens how people are hungry for the Word, but also hungry for prayer. You know, Pray every day. You know, and it’s something where it’s not long, so you can listen to it on the way to work or on the way to pick up your kids or in the line when you’re waiting for your kids or with your kids in the car. Car. Captive audience. You know, I was excited.
Doris Swift [00:29:18]:
Oh, golly. I don’t remember how many years back, but it’s been a while, because four of my grand. Four of my six grandkids, I was taking care of them while my daughter and son in love were out of town. And so I’m riding them to school in the morning, and I want to say they maybe were in high school or junior high. Can’t remember. They’re graduate. All graduated now. But it was.
Doris Swift [00:29:39]:
It was your show, so. And I would listen to it on the way, taking them to school. And one particular morning was exciting for me because I had. Because you. You allow people to support the show, you know, and then you talk about that at the end in various shows. So that was one of the days that I was sponsoring the show. And so it was, like, so funny. They heard my name and it was like, what? But it wasn’t about me.
Doris Swift [00:30:04]:
It was about. It was about prayer. It was about the scripture that you were reading, you know, going into them, and it’s like, hide God’s word in our Heart so we won’t sin against you, you know. And so how powerful. And they do, you know, they did go to a Christian school so they, they were in the word at school too. But that was just like very powerful, impactful. I just want to share that. That was so cute with them.
Doris Swift [00:30:24]:
They really so cool. They enjoyed that so much. So pray every day. Check that out also as being an author, because I asked one of my friends who also loves you very much and she wanted to know, Tara, what is, what is it like to write in different genres? Like is that challenging for you or how has that been?
Mary DeMuth [00:30:46]:
It’s, it’s more of a look inside my chaotic brain. So someone asked me recently, how do you come up with your ideas? And I was like, that is not my problem. I have to beat off ideas with a stick. So it’s part of how I’m made to do things in different genres in different ways. I’m also a novelist, so and I started my writing journey it primarily as a novelist. So it’s just how my head operates. In fact, I just handed in a book this week and I pinged my agent. I said, we need another contract.
Mary DeMuth [00:31:18]:
I need to write another book. So I’m ready to start writing another one if I can get a contract. So that’s how it’s working.
Doris Swift [00:31:25]:
And I mean, your agent doesn’t love that, right?
Mary DeMuth [00:31:27]:
I mean, yeah, I’m sure she, she’s like, oh no, I’ve got to shop another project.
Doris Swift [00:31:32]:
She likes it for sure and she’s going to know already. It’s, it’s quality, you know, it’s like, yay, Mary has another book. But it’s kind of a journey. And it’s also cool to think about the fact being that you’re a literary agent, but you have a literary agent too. So you have someone pouring into you as you’re pouring into others. So that’s pretty special. And so when you like, say someone wants to find out, like what does it take to be represented or what do you look for when you are maybe looking to represent an author? What does that look like? Mary?
Mary DeMuth [00:32:08]:
Yeah, so it’s pretty basic. It’s a three pronged stool. So one prong is the frustrating one for all authors. That’s the platform prong. You know, the one leg is the platform leg, the other leg is your writing ability and the last leg is the uniqueness and like just the surprisingness of your idea. And so publishers are looking for at least a hundred thousand followers across all platforms. Most people don’t have that. And so as a literary agent, some of my authors are lower on that scale, but the other two are high.
Mary DeMuth [00:32:43]:
And so if those two are high, I can take a risk. Of course I love getting someone with good platform or who has sold books before and has good numbers. It’s, it’s a, I don’t necessarily think platform is as important as publishers think it is, but I sell to publishers. So if they’re convinced of it, then there’s nothing I can, my hands are tied. So I have to look at those numbers. So those are the three things that you have to look for.
Doris Swift [00:33:13]:
Yeah. Well, thank you. And that’s easy to remember, a three legged stool or whatever. And so it is important, I mean, because it’s a business too and publishers want to know that you’re books will, you know, be viable in the, in, in the publishing world and in the market, you know, and people will actually want to buy your book because it costs a lot of money to publish a book. It takes a long time too. So. So as far as like sales, if you had someone that had book sales in the, in the past, what would be like maybe kind of an average number that you look for?
Mary DeMuth [00:33:47]:
It’s not necessarily an average number, it’s whether they have come close to earning their advance back. So usually a publisher will advance based on how many copies they think will sell. So if they give you a $10,000 advance, they think that you’ll move 10,000 copies. And if you only move 2,000, then that’s a problem. However, if you got a $2,000 advance and you move 2,000 copies, well, you’ve earned out your advance. So that looks better. So the number doesn’t matter as much as how many copies you are able to move in reference to your advance.
Doris Swift [00:34:20]:
Ah, that’s great. That’s great that you shared that. And I’m sure someone listening will, you know, take that in and, and just kind of. It’s. Sometimes publishing can be a little bit like gray and kind of murky. So make you bring in clarity and that’s what you do. So you shepherd your, you mentor, shepherd your writers. And I’m sure there’s times where maybe they present something to you and you say, well, this is good, but.
Doris Swift [00:34:49]:
And then you are able to pull something out of their proposal or whatever that’s more unique. Right? Have you, have you loved doing that?
Mary DeMuth [00:34:58]:
Yeah, I love doing that. And it’s usually it starts with a conversation before they. I would hate for someone to do a whole proposal before we shopped it and there, there’s some fundamentally wrong things with it or it could have been tweaked a better way. So we, I prefer that we have a conversation before and we talk through. The number one thing that we talk through is felt need. What is going to make the person be in a Barnes and Noble, see your cover and say, oh my gosh, I have to have that book. That is my need. I am hurting.
Mary DeMuth [00:35:29]:
And this, this is of course in, in non fiction, in fiction it’s is it a good story? But in non fiction, is, does it. Is it something that’s going to grab a reader? Is it going to wow them? Is it going to make them want to buy it? Because it is a business and you have to sell product. So that’s part of it.
Doris Swift [00:35:43]:
Yeah. And as a writer, I mean, you, you want your message that you feel that God has given you to reach as many hands as possible. And you know, so that’s important too. So if we look, it’s all perspective, you know, people can be like, oh, that platform thing, because, you know, it can really be frustrating for, for authors, you know, writers and authors and thinking of it in the perspective of, hey, I will. More people will get to be free of something or, you know, be encouraged by this or, you know, or have more, you know, have a, have a quality book that they can give as gifts and maybe do as a group together, you know, that kind of thing. So that’s really important. In the beginning, years ago, there used to be the thought that as far as platform goes, it wasn’t as critical with fiction as it is in non fiction. Is that still true, Mary? Do you find that too?
Mary DeMuth [00:36:38]:
Yes, it’s still true. And it’s all about readership and can you reach your reader. And usually people who read fiction, once they like an author, they just stick with them. So it’s a matter of gathering first and that, that can take some time. And so there is a need for platform there, but it’s just not as robust as the other.
Doris Swift [00:36:55]:
Great. Okay. Well, thank you for, for that answer because I had wondered about that too. And I know some, some people who are in, you know, doing writing and that because you have to also like hone your craft. So you can’t just say, I want to write this book. So you have to like follow, go to conferences and learn things, become maybe in a membership or something with, you know, writers that, that do that. Have a critique group. Right? That would be important.
Mary DeMuth [00:37:25]:
Yes.
Doris Swift [00:37:26]:
Yeah. Well, great. Well, this has been so exciting having you on the Show. I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time, and I just want to know or give you an opportunity if there’s something on your heart that God is wanting you to share with someone listening right now, something maybe we hadn’t talked about yet that you would like to bring up, what would that be?
Mary DeMuth [00:37:49]:
You know, the thing is, in today’s climate and the world of social media, I think many of us feel lonely and alone. And so I just simply want to say, you’re not alone. And there are many people in this world who love Jesus and who want to be connected to you. And if. If you’re feeling lonely and brokenhearted about that, my prayer is that the Lord would open up a friendship for you, because nobody can do this life on our own. We need each other.
Doris Swift [00:38:20]:
Yeah, that’s so beautiful and so important. An important reminder, because when we’re hurting, we tend to isolate, and that’s not. Not healthy. I mean, you know, we can go a lot, be alone with the Lord, but then he created us for community, so. So that’s so important. And. And yeah, I just want to mention too, when you. When you’re kind of feeling alone or like you’re feeling not seen, like, join Mary’s email list.
Doris Swift [00:38:44]:
Because when you send your email messages out or your Thursday or whatever, you know you’re sending out. And I. Okay, so I know that when we have these different mail services, it plugs in names and stuff, but it does feel personal when you say, doris, can I pray for you? And I really feel like you’re saying that. And because I listen to your show, I know how your voice is, so I can hear you saying it. So it’s just personal and it’s encouraging. So if you could share, how can the listener connect with you and find all the things we talked about?
Mary DeMuth [00:39:20]:
So you can find me@marydemuth.com you’ll find everything there. If you’re looking for literary agency, it’s Mary DeMuth Literary.com to hop onto my list. I have a free offer for people that’s related to the Surrender book. So they can go to marydemuth.com surrender and they’ll receive 10 free. No, I think it’s 12. 12 free lock screens based on the art from the book for your phone. So you have my art on your phone for free. And then you’ll also get that Thursday email where I will pray for you by name.
Mary DeMuth [00:39:51]:
And that’s been really fun to do for many, many years now.
Doris Swift [00:39:55]:
Yeah, it is so encouraging. And do you still have it? Is it an Etsy shop that you have still where you.
Mary DeMuth [00:40:01]:
I do. You can find. Find that@marydemuth.com art.
Doris Swift [00:40:05]:
Very good. Yeah. And her art is so beautiful and colorful, which is really very fun to look at, too, but also powerful because the scripture is right there. And it’s great for gifts, too. I mean, give them as gifts. Sometimes you just need like something you want to hand somebody or whatever, you know, and so have those on hand, so. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. It’s been a pleasure and I hope to have you back on sometime.
Mary DeMuth [00:40:29]:
I would love it. Thank you so much. You asked great questions and I pray your audience is often encouraged, which I think they probably are. So for sure they are. So thank you for all that you do.
Doris Swift [00:40:40]:
Thank you, Mary. I appreciate the that so much. And friends, thank you for listening today. And I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where their passion, compassion and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you
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