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What happens when the wounds, detours, and difficult seasons of your life become part of God’s calling? In this episode of Fierce Calling, Doris sits down with Deborah Rutherford, poet, podcast host, speaker, Emmy award winning makeup artist, and author of Prodigal Daughter: Poems of Light for the Lost Ones, to talk about a journey from childhood trauma and spiritual confusion to healing, surrender, and grace.
Deborah shares how poetry became a lifeline during painful years, how she eventually rediscovered Jesus while working in Budapest, and how God prepared her through decades as an Emmy Award-winning makeup artist before leading her into writing. She also opens up about walking through career uncertainty, marriage and financial struggles, and paying off $150,000 in credit card debt in 22 months!
Together, Doris and Deborah Rutherford reflect on God’s providence, the difference Jesus makes in hard seasons, and as Doris loves to share: Our past stories don’t discredit our grace stories, they become part of it.
What Deborah shares will encourage, inspire, and challenge you, so listen in!
Quotes from the show:
Hollywood’s Anti-Christian Double Standard: “You’re not supposed to talk about somebody’s religion at work, but that seemed to be sort of the okay thing to make fun of.” – Deborah Rutherford
“When We Mistake Our Fathers for God: we can mistake God for the attributes of our own fathers or the, or the men in our lives who were supposed to protect us and didn’t.” – Deborah Rutherford
Grateful for Salvation—and a Story to Share: “I wake up, you know, every day being grateful for my salvation, but also grateful and grateful, not also, but grateful that he gave me a book to write to tell people about what he’s done in my life.” – Deborah Rutherford
💡 Episode Highlights & Key Takeaways
03:18 Introducing Deborah and her book
08:52 Finding Faith and Healing
10:51 Moving from LA to Georgia
14:25 Starting Christian writing journey
18:08 Forming a Writing Group
21:59 Family secrets and denial discussed
24:36 Embracing Faith Amid Workplace Challenges
30:25 Choosing between makeup school and self-study
32:24 Adapting to the new dress code
37:38 Reflecting on career and faith journey
38:32 Balancing marketing and writing
44:10 Deborah’s testimony and book discussion
45:37 Reflecting on faith and gratitude
48:56 Sharing faith and personal testimony
🤝 Connect with Deborah!
You can connect with Deborah at deborahrutherford.com and find her book, more about her, encouraging blog, podcast, resources, and more!
You can also find her here:
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@DeborahRutherford-Behold-Her
DeborahRutherford.substack.com
Instagram @deborahrutherfordwrites
Deborah Rutherford is a poet, author, speaker, and Emmy recipient for her makeup artistry in film and television. Her poem “Dear Lord Only You” was recognized in the Storytellers Poetry Contest. Her debut collection, Prodigal Daughter: Poems of Light for the Lost Ones, reflects her journey of restoration, grace, and hope in Christ. Deborah hosts the Behold-Her Beauty Podcast and has been published in The Way Back to Ourselves, Vessels of Light, Calla Press, and Prosetrics. She lives in Georgia with her husband, Don, and enjoys singing old hymns, drinking bold coffee, and walking under the pines.
🙏 Remember, Friend, That Your Story Matters!
As always, remember—your journey, your fierce calling, and your honest story can comfort and encourage others. Where can you share your experiences this week?
Grace and peace,
Doris
Host, Fierce Calling Podcast
What Threatens to Steal Your Joy?
Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/
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Thanks for Listening!
I hope this episode encouraged, inspired, and challenged you to cultivate community, live and walk in the value, purpose, and worth God gave you, and take action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect.
If you’re looking for a speaker for your next women’s conference, retreat, luncheon, or workshop, reach out and connect with me on my speaker page at https://www.womenspeakers.com/florida/edgewater/speaker/doris-swift
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Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned.
Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you.
I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect …
Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.
With love and joy,
Doris
Show Disclaimer
The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy, position, or views of this podcast, its hosts, or its sponsors. The views expressed in this episode or any other episodes of this podcast are for informational purposes only. This content does not replace professional medical advice, mental health advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
Transcript
Doris Swift [00:00:00 – 00:01:35]
What if your hardest seasons, your deepest passions, and all the things you’ve walked through and are currently walking through were meant to become the very calling God has placed on your life? Welcome to the Fierce Calling Podcast. I’m your host, Doris Swift, and I invite guests who are taking action where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect and share their stories Of faith, hard seasons, resilience, and their calling. So together we’ll discover how God uses every part of our stories, and how when we say yes to Him and use our gifts to impact the world, that God can do extraordinary things in the midst of our ordinary days. And sometimes hearing someone else’s yes to God is just what we need To find the courage to say yes to Him too. So my hope is that the stories you hear will encourage, inspire, and challenge you to step out and discover your own fierce calling, because your story may be the very place where God is preparing you to jump into the work He prepared in advance for you to do and to follow Jesus in deeper and more profound ways. So yes, this is Fierce Calling. And if you’re ready to discover where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect and step out in faith to make a difference, you’re in the right place, friend. So listen in while I have a chat with today’s guest who has a message to share with you.
Doris Swift [00:01:36 – 00:02:38]
What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan, and His plan is to surrender it, surrender it to Him. It might be a prodigal. It might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Darris Swift, author of the award-winning 6-week Bible study, Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You. And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever-present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers, and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives. Using personal and biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers, surrender them to God, reawaken the joy within, and share the joy with others.
Doris Swift [00:02:39 – 00:03:18]
You can do it on your own or with a group. If you’re looking for a Bible study, check it out, friends. Surrender the Joy Stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s time to take your joy back. Hi friends, welcome back to the Fierce Calling Podcast. And I am excited today to welcome my friend Deborah Rutherford. She has been so encouraging to me over time with her ministry, Behold Her Beauty that she has been doing, and we’ve connected on different other levels with her ministry work, and she was very gracious in helping launch my book.
Doris Swift [00:03:18 – 00:04:17]
And so I’ve been wanting to have her on for a while, and then I discovered she had a book that came out, and so I got— I just kind of jumped on that, and I have that. So we’re going to talk about that today, but I also want to give you a little background about Deborah, and then I’ll let her kind of share more about that. So she is a Christian wife, award-winning poet, she’s a speaker, and an Emmy Award-winning makeup artist. So this is so fascinating. And so she has been on this pilgrimage, as she puts it, from a stolen childhood to a life of grace. In the heart of her debut poetry collection, Prodigal Daughter, Poems of Light for the Lost Ones, and I have it right here with me, Prodigal Daughter. It’s beautiful and filled with scripture and lovely poetry. And Deborah lives in Georgia with her husband Don, so she’s not too far from me.
Doris Swift [00:04:17 – 00:04:24]
I’m in Florida. And so we are excited to get into this conversation. Welcome to the show, Deborah. It’s great to have you on.
Deborah Rutherford [00:04:24 – 00:04:39]
Great to be here. Thank you, Dorothy. I’m so excited to be here. Um, you are lovely, and, um, I love whenever I see you on social media. I loved being in your book launch. Um, I love your book, so it’s very exciting to be here with you.
Doris Swift [00:04:40 – 00:05:11]
Such a blessing. I love how God connects us. He puts us together, um, with others to encourage us who may be walking a similar path in, in writing or not, you know. And it’s like, so it’s just so cool that we have a lot of the same author friends in the circles that we’re in and everything. But just because we are, uh, I think we’ve all been the woman at the well. We’ve all been prodigal daughters at one time or another, and we’re sisters in Christ. So that is the bond of unity right there. That is cool.
Doris Swift [00:05:11 – 00:05:28]
The love is the perfect bond of unity, as God said. So anyway, I’d just love to get into this, Deborah. So if you could, um, just share some of your story and how you’re taking action where you’re passionate compassion and conviction intersect?
Deborah Rutherford [00:05:30 – 00:06:04]
Let’s see, I have my story. It’s a long story, but it’s a love story. It’s a love story with God. I, you know, grew up in a kind of dysfunctional home and background. My parents loved me, but there was lots of dysfunction. My father was struggling with pain medication and alcoholism. And we had a relative that was too touchy with us young girls. Hopefully not.
Deborah Rutherford [00:06:04 – 00:06:48]
Yes, yes. And it was— and I shouldn’t even say touchy, I should say molesting. So I don’t want it to act to put light on it because I know it’s very painful for people. Yes. And it was for me and those in my family who suffered that. But In those days and in my family, we didn’t talk about things, and so you kind of put everything down. And thankfully, in middle school, I had a creative writing teacher that taught us poetry and writing. And I really do believe that God gave me that gift to tether me to him during, of course, my trouble at home.
Deborah Rutherford [00:06:49 – 00:07:30]
that I would write. I have like early prayers and pleas to him, and of course things about boys too, but— Yeah. As young girls do. And but then I— part of me, of course, wanted to wander. I’m not gonna say that it was all the traumatic things. It was that too. Of course I wanted to get out in the big world and thought I knew better. But also too, I think having unresolved healing from trauma made me mistake God for maybe the villain and, and run, run from him.
Deborah Rutherford [00:07:30 – 00:08:27]
And so I did. And so years went by and I went into music, poetry, and then I went into becoming a makeup artist. And During this period, I went through, you know, an eating disorder, self-harm, just many things, loss, abortion. And it was— but I kept trying to fix myself, you know. I went to therapists and psychologists and holistic doctors and all those kinds of things. And— But thankfully too, God put me together with my husband about 34 years ago, who was a prodigal too, wild child, and we came home to God together. One day I took a job that I probably shouldn’t have. He was very angry about it.
Deborah Rutherford [00:08:27 – 00:08:51]
He didn’t want me to go, and I was in Budapest. But during this separation, God was working on both of our hearts. So we were Skyping and he said, I’m reading the Bible. And I was like, oh! I want to read it too. And so he said, you’re in a hotel, look in the drawer. And it was there. Wow. And so that evening I read, you know, about Jesus’ healings.
Deborah Rutherford [00:08:52 – 00:09:48]
And for me, that was the— I knew I needed healing. And it opened my eyes back up. I mean, that was— I felt the Holy Spirit swoosh into me. And it opened my eyes back up and I remembered the Jesus that I had forgotten, the one that I knew as a child, the one. And I remember going to work the next day, so I’m in a makeup trailer with non-believers. Now granted, around the people around me, the Hungarians, they’re all mostly Christians, but I’m running around everybody going, did you know Jesus was a healer? I had forgotten And I was so excited. And my, my non-believer makeup crew and hairstylist crew people were just like, okay, she’s, she’s okay. She’s, she’s having a moment here.
Deborah Rutherford [00:09:48 – 00:09:48]
You know?
Doris Swift [00:09:49 – 00:09:49]
Yeah.
Deborah Rutherford [00:09:49 – 00:10:51]
And I was so excited about it. And so I had been probably halfway into my 30-year career at that point, and now I come back as a believer. And I’m like, whoa, where am I? Because it was such a contrast. You know, it just— what I had been thinking that life was and what I was living for and had left me so empty. And you can have money, you can have houses, you can have all those things. and still be empty without God filling, filling your heart. And that’s where I, where I was. And, and so that during the next 15 years, that transition— and my, my husband worked with, works with, worked with me in film as a makeup artist too.
Deborah Rutherford [00:10:51 – 00:12:09]
So we were able to transition out of Los Angeles Hollywood to Georgia Hollywood. As the industry, a lot of it had come out here, and my husband’s family is in Tennessee, so we wanted to get closer. And my parents had passed, and so we came out here, and it was a battle, the industry. There was a lot of— Two-sided battle. One was There was a lot of betrayal, a lot of just wanting us to be involved in scenes that were ungodly, you know, a lot of hearing a lot of anti-Christian messaging and that sort of thing. Like, you’re not supposed to talk about somebody’s religion at work, but that seemed to be sort of the okay thing to make fun of. But I had learned by this point to— by the time we got out to Georgia, I had learned that, or at least God taught me that at least Jesus was on their mind. And I heard, because I heard Billy Graham say, like, people were very upset in his day about Jesus Christ Superstar.
Deborah Rutherford [00:12:09 – 00:12:34]
Mm-hmm. And he said, Jesus, who is this Jesus? He’s on everybody’s mind. And so every time somebody would maybe say Jesus’ name not in proper way, you know, or swear or whatever, I would think, ah, he’s on their mind, you know, and then pray for them because that’s what they don’t know, they don’t understand, or maybe they do and that might be worse for them.
Doris Swift [00:12:34 – 00:12:34]
Yes.
Deborah Rutherford [00:12:35 – 00:13:37]
Um, but then the other side is when I would go, okay, when I was not working, because in my— that job, you would work like 6 months and you’d have like 3 months off to recuperate from those 6 months of work. And when I was off, I was a wonderful Christian at church, at the bookstore, at the grocery store. But when I would walk back on that lot, a lot of my old habits were tempting me. My, um, being jealousy, ambition, competition. Somebody got a promotion over me. Mm-hmm. And so, because I kept thinking that, that, okay God, I’m with you now, when are you gonna take me away from this? What am I gonna do next? Mm-hmm. Why am I still here? You know, the years went on and I realized that it’s because I needed to be there to learn how to walk into that environment and not put on, as Apostle Paul’s, you know, the old clothes.
Deborah Rutherford [00:13:38 – 00:14:15]
Like, I was putting on old clothes old attitudes, old habits, and they weren’t, you know, to go forward where I would be doing what I’m doing now. Mm-hmm. God didn’t want me to, to have that on me, you know. I needed to— I needed to— the sanctification walk, you know. But he was preparing me by teaching me how to, um, say no to those temptations, to those old ways, to those habits. And when you’ve walked many years in them, it’s— it can be a little— it’s harder, I think, than if—
Doris Swift [00:14:16 – 00:14:16]
yeah,
Deborah Rutherford [00:14:16 – 00:14:24]
maybe. I mean, I think each person struggles with their own area of temptation, you know? And—
Doris Swift [00:14:24 – 00:14:25]
Yeah.
Deborah Rutherford [00:14:25 – 00:15:16]
Yeah, so that’s kind of, you know, and then I— in 2002-01, I felt God saying— I had joined Compel, and I felt like God saying, share your faith through writing. And I took an internship with author Sarah Gerringer about a year scheduling her Twitter, and she coached me on— and I thought, am I crazy? I’m a 60— at the time, 62-year-old woman, professional in my field, taking the internship. And then I felt God say, if you want to learn what it means to be a Christian author, this is your opportunity. You need to learn how hard you’re gonna have to work and how faithful you’re gonna have to be. And I saw how hard she works, and I was like, whoa, okay.
Doris Swift [00:15:16 – 00:15:17]
Yeah.
Deborah Rutherford [00:15:18 – 00:15:54]
And then another thing I used to always say is, when I retire, I’m gonna be a writer. And so Interesting enough, that’s so ’62 to ’65. And then you know how God’s timing works. The industry that I’m in went through a writer’s strike. AI came in, streaming came in, and a lot of the work went away. A lot of it went to overseas. A lot of it— it’s just less of it because there’s not as much— Income. jobs in that industry anymore.
Deborah Rutherford [00:15:55 – 00:16:28]
And so it was a perfect opportunity for me to take my retirement and let go of that world. Now also, on the very last job that I did, which was the studio job, I’m gonna say, was Captain America 4. Yeah. And at the very end of it, I felt like I had come through that shoot without the old habits, right? And now it was, it was a treacherous path to walk because you’re walking alongside people who—
Doris Swift [00:16:28 – 00:16:28]
It wasn’t easy.
Deborah Rutherford [00:16:29 – 00:16:35]
Who, um, don’t believe and don’t always play fair. But I, I felt like, okay.
Doris Swift [00:16:35 – 00:16:35]
Yes.
Deborah Rutherford [00:16:36 – 00:17:12]
And I remember saying to God, if this is the last one, I’m so good with it. Thank you. This is a beautiful one to go out on. And so it was the last studio one. Now I haven’t sold all my things because I haven’t heard God say, do that. But last December, an independent group of filmmakers here had asked us to come and work for them, and it turned out that many of them were Christians, just by chance. Wow. You only really have to kind of know somebody, just one person in one area.
Deborah Rutherford [00:17:14 – 00:17:26]
I’m in contact with only one— well, now another one because she was a Christian actress that I met on that. But before her, a non-Christian actress, because I kind of call her a pre-believer. I really feel she’s a pre-believer.
Doris Swift [00:17:27 – 00:17:27]
Yeah. Um,
Deborah Rutherford [00:17:28 – 00:18:06]
and she, she’s kind of the only person I kind of keep in contact with on Instagram. Mm-hmm. And then her husband was coming out here to do an independent thing. And so she made that happen or brought us in. But I know it’s all kind of a God thing because it was just how he works. And so it’s just been— Yes. That’s sort of— that’s my journey. And then at the same time as all this was coming, my writing, I joined up with the— my, I guess we call it our writing cohort, our Unexpected Blessing Writers.
Deborah Rutherford [00:18:08 – 00:19:31]
And we all met on Compel in a little Facebook chat too we started, and then we started our little group, and then we said, praying, what do you want us to do, God? And we, okay, do a book. And so we’ve done 2, and now we’re working on our 3rd, and that will, for next year. And then at the same time, I had all this poetry from my life. And I remember when we moved out here in 2016, I had taken it all. You know, I had files and all this stuff, and I thought, how do I get 6 decades of life into a book? And so I divided it up into 5 chapters. Now, the only thing that really remains in the book are the 5 chapters. They’re really— They were innocence, Strife, awakening, restoration, and dance. I kept those, but what the other writing became was emotional mining, because I wanted everything in the book to be from the lens of who I am as a mature woman, as a woman who loves God, as one looking back, seeing how God had— was there nonstop through every little situation.
Deborah Rutherford [00:19:32 – 00:19:35]
Now I can look back and go, wow, he was there with me.
Doris Swift [00:19:37 – 00:20:04]
Yeah, yeah, he was. That’s really beautiful with this journey that you shared, and just such a precious thing because when you shared early on and when you were kind of going over the beginning of your story, how you felt like God was the villain And was that because you felt like he was not there when you were struggling through childhood things? Or what do you think was—
Deborah Rutherford [00:20:05 – 00:21:09]
I think that was— and I learned this from, um, uh, Roseanne Quillen in her book Father, about, you know, that, um, we can mistake God for the attributes of our own fathers or the, or the men in our lives who were supposed to protect us and didn’t. And, and that’s— so that’s what I, I was doing. I didn’t really understand, um, until God brought me back home. I didn’t really understand, although, although I had one at coming into my adulthood, I didn’t understand the personal relationship part. Um, and I didn’t understand the supernatural part. There are many things where, where I had grown up in the Catholic religion and my husband grew up in the Baptist religion. So when we came back to God, he gave me Dr. Charles Stanley’s Christian Handbook.
Deborah Rutherford [00:21:10 – 00:21:57]
Mm-hmm. He’s like, I think you better read this. And it was amazing. It taught me so much that I didn’t understand about everything, just things that maybe as a child I might have just childlike knew, but then going into my adulthood, I needed to know these things, and I didn’t have that at that time. And so I think that that’s kind of where that comes from. Also, both my father and the relative that molested me were very considered very pious in the church.
Doris Swift [00:21:58 – 00:21:59]
Oh, okay.
Deborah Rutherford [00:21:59 – 00:23:00]
And so I just thought, if that, you know, and this is just, this is not a, this is just what happened. None of it needed to happen because One cousin, and I don’t think she will hear this, but her mother didn’t tell anybody. And so it was allowed to keep happening to other cousins. Okay. He would get you to come work in his school, his business, as a young girl. And then when it happened to my sister, my mother knew, And she still let me go there. And my sister and I, we talk about this today, and we’re both— we both love my mother’s past, and we love her and everything. We just— sometimes we’re like, you know, like, like, I think there was just such this denial, and maybe they could protect, and maybe it wouldn’t happen, and maybe it wasn’t true, and maybe— I don’t know.
Deborah Rutherford [00:23:01 – 00:23:01]
I don’t know.
Doris Swift [00:23:02 – 00:23:02]
Yeah,
Deborah Rutherford [00:23:02 – 00:23:02]
you know,
Doris Swift [00:23:03 – 00:23:04]
yeah, that could be so confusing.
Deborah Rutherford [00:23:05 – 00:23:06]
Yeah,
Doris Swift [00:23:06 – 00:23:11]
you know, for a young, a young person, but for any somebody any age, you know.
Deborah Rutherford [00:23:11 – 00:24:05]
Yeah, so I think that that’s where that came from, because I became quite, um, uh, terrified of what I call at the time hypocrisy, hypocrites, and organized religion. And but I was always searching, so I was like reading about, you know, world religions and reading, um, you know, New Age things. And, and believe me, if you would have ever said, oh, do witchcraft, I would have gone, oh no. But now I discovered after, after coming back to God that no, New Age is that. I was, you know, that was that. Yeah. And so it’s just being honest with ourselves and find, you know, when we don’t really know what we were doing And then when God shows us— and he’s so kind because he gently shows us—
Doris Swift [00:24:06 – 00:24:06]
Yes.
Deborah Rutherford [00:24:06 – 00:24:35]
What our act— the consequences of our actions and what we’re really doing. And it helps us understand, um, how it hurt us, why we shouldn’t do it. And, you know, and, and without any shame or, um, you know, condemnation, it was, it was more of This is— I love you this much to show you why you shouldn’t be doing that.
Doris Swift [00:24:36 – 00:26:08]
Yes, yes. And that conviction, you know, um, and, and it was so good how you were talking about when you then began to seek, you know, and then when Jesus became your Lord and Savior and you and your husband both were on this journey together, which is so beautiful how he did that. in both your hearts at this, you know, same time, and that it kind of stirred something in you. But then when you were going back to the places, you know, where you work, where you have been, you could see the contrast. And as you said, the two-sided battle and how there is such a double standard where you can’t really— well, you can’t talk about religion or, you know, share that with people at work, but yet it was okay to be persecuted and mocked for your faith. And obviously because the enemy does not want the name of Jesus spoken, but like you said, it was still on the minds of people because it stirred something up, you know. And, you know, the word says not to stir up trouble, but it also says, you know, that we are to share and be light. And sometimes what— how that comes out is just in the ways that we then have convictions about things that, well, I’m sorry, I’m not able— I can no longer do that, you know.
Doris Swift [00:26:08 – 00:26:25]
And then to share, it gives open doors to share. But I was interested to find out, because it sounds like you’ve worked on some very big movies, but how did you actually get into makeup artistry, and how did those doors open for you? Because I was wondering how that started.
Deborah Rutherford [00:26:28 – 00:27:31]
My husband knew about being a makeup artist because he grew up with the kind of the horror films like Day of the Dead and forget all of them, but that he was really, really liked them. And I had— was working at a music company, A&M Records, and I had a work injury and I had the opportunity to get vocational rehabilitation because they either have to give you a new job or give you a new life. And so I— and they didn’t want to give me a new job because I don’t know, all this stuff. I was vested. I’d been there 7 years and whatever the reasons were. So it was good though because the internet came in. And this is just— I just— All the timing. The internet came in And the job that I had, that company— that, well, that company sold and the internet came in and that work no longer exists.
Deborah Rutherford [00:27:32 – 00:28:15]
So it was just like this, like, for this amazing timing. Like, one of our friends who still works in the music industry says, you guys couldn’t have planned your escape any better. And so— But didn’t know we were escaping. We just were going on to one dream abruptly ended, and we used our creativity in another dream. But he knew about being a makeup artist, and I had gone to a vocational workshop, and which I wish I would have gone to in high school, but they said you’re an artistic scientific personality. You need to do something artistic with a little bit of science in it. You need to be indoors, outdoors. Mm-hmm.
Deborah Rutherford [00:28:16 – 00:28:55]
changing schedule all the time. And that was— or otherwise you won’t be as— I’ll call it fruitful now, but they probably said another word— and productive. Productive. And that was completely what was going on with me. I was stuck in a little office typing. And so I was thinking about becoming They give you the education, how many years. And at my age at the time, 34, I was thinking I should— maybe I could become a pre-vet assistant. My husband’s like, oh, you don’t want to do that because you love animals and you’re going to have to give them shots.
Deborah Rutherford [00:28:55 – 00:29:45]
And I’m like, oh, you’re right. And so he’s like, I think you should become a makeup artist, because he wanted to become one. But also because we were creative. We always did our posters and our flyers, and we’re painting. And you did a video, you put some makeup on. And, and I— and he had started building these little— they’re called build-up kits, but they’re usually a character or a creature from a movie. And so the guy that he was selling his work through knew a makeup artist named Dick Smith. So if anybody who knows anything about makeup history, Dick was like the, you know, the top of everything.
Deborah Rutherford [00:29:45 – 00:30:24]
Like, he’s the one that special makeup effects even exist to the quality that exists. And he did like The Godfather and Taxi, Cab Driver, and all those things. Mm-hmm. But he knew him, and so I called him and he’s like, oh my goodness, you are so green. I’m not— he had a course. He’s like, I’m not gonna take your money. He’s like, I’m gonna tell you how hard it’s gonna be. You’re a woman, you’re older than most people who get into this, you’re 34, but you can do it if you really work hard.
Deborah Rutherford [00:30:25 – 00:31:18]
So it’s like always Like, God has always given me the opportunity to have these people honestly tell me how hard it’s going to be, and then I can decide if, if I want to sign up for it, right? And it just— and so he said, either go to makeup school or buy a camera, read these books, and practice for 3 months and contact me. And so I said, well, I have the money. from the work— the workman’s compensation thing. And so he told me to go to Westmore Academy at the time. This— I don’t think it’s a school anymore, but the Westmores were a big makeup Hollywood family. And he said they have small classes right now with really good teachers. And so I, I went. It was like a 3-month— I think it was 3 months.
Deborah Rutherford [00:31:19 – 00:32:02]
And it was, you know, like 8 to 5, and it covered it. I look at it as like an entry level. It showed me all the different areas of makeup, which is actually huge. I had no idea that all of it that existed in it. And, and then it started sending you out on, in, you know, little internships. But one of my teachers He loved the music industry, and he loved me right away because that’s where I had come from. And so we kind of bonded. And then he, he needed to be— it’s just like, so like these— so Hollywood, really.
Deborah Rutherford [00:32:03 – 00:32:21]
But it’s also like, I look at all— it’s all providence, like where God’s led me. Mm-hmm. But he needed to replace himself because he got on a bigger job, and he worked in a lab. And so he sent me. I don’t think anybody else showed up.
Doris Swift [00:32:23 – 00:32:23]
Wow.
Deborah Rutherford [00:32:24 – 00:33:19]
And I come walking in, and I think at the time I had like overalls on with a little short shirt and motorcycle boots. And his wife’s looking at me like, goodness, who’s this? And they said, you need to wear jeans and a button-up shirt and tennis shoes. And okay, because I had spent so much time— part of my rebellion was also, I’m gonna dress the way I want, I’m gonna— and at this point in my life, I was like, okay. I was so grateful to have another opportunity to start over in something. I was like, okay, I’ll do what you guys say. And I think I cut my hair short, and I think I kind of went probably overboard for a moment. Till I met another female makeup artist named V. Neal, who is very big in the industry too.
Deborah Rutherford [00:33:20 – 00:34:09]
She did, like, recently The Hunger Games movies and Pirates of the Caribbean. And she was, you know, had hair and nails. And I was like, okay, you can be a woman in this business. Yeah. And I would go on to work for her later too. So that’s kind of how it just— and what I discovered in that business is that when you are new, people very open and everything, and what you— at least, at least for me, come in, but a lot of times they want free help. So you’re kind of interning, running around helping people. And then— but things change as soon as I got into the makeup union and started maybe going up for some of the same jobs, then it’s like, change, you know, change.
Deborah Rutherford [00:34:10 – 00:34:18]
And some of it could be very vicious, you know, on both sides, my side or their side, because now you’re competing.
Doris Swift [00:34:18 – 00:34:36]
Yeah, I imagine it is, because there’s a lot of competition. And it is interesting, I, I wouldn’t have guessed that because you are a woman, you know, that that would be a barrier. being a makeup artist. I would just think that, oh, well, that— but I guess that is the industry, right?
Deborah Rutherford [00:34:36 – 00:35:28]
Well, the industry when it started was all males, all heterosexual males. And I’m just going to say maybe they all weren’t, but that was kind of— and they were— that was their industry. And then what happened is one of the actresses complained about one of them doing her body makeup. And so women were the— women at that time were allowed to be hairstylists. And for many years, the hairstylist rate was lower, and that was a big, big battle to get them to have equal pay. Probably just recently, maybe like 10 years ago, they got it. So we’re talking about from the 1940s all the way. here.
Deborah Rutherford [00:35:28 – 00:36:05]
And I think that’s when the body makeup artists came in. And so that became a classification because you— to be— to work on movie sets, everybody has to be in a union. And so then they have these classifications about— and so makeup then became makeup. It was makeup and hair that became makeup, body makeup and hair. And then the special effects were under the makeup. But that started getting bigger too, as everything kind of got bigger and more specialized. People started branching off into areas. By time—
Doris Swift [00:36:06 – 00:36:06]
Yeah.
Deborah Rutherford [00:36:06 – 00:37:07]
I got into it, and some, some of the women I worked with, like say V, V. Neal, they started off— it was really hard for them. It was a very— because they were getting into the special effects side too. And that was kind of— as women became allowed to do makeup, makeup, the men became more— the special effects became more for men and the beauty became more for women. But many people wanted to do both. And so that was kind of— and, and both sides, it’s hard on both sides. Like, when my husband and I were coming up, we had the advantage to have some mentors who advised that we learn all of it. You just— you learn beauty, you learn special effects, you learn how to do hair.
Deborah Rutherford [00:37:08 – 00:37:27]
That way, they said, you’re handy. And so if they’re only making Westerns— Mm-hmm. You’ll get hired. If you’re only— they’re only doing a showtune movie, you’ll get hired. If they’re only doing, you know, pirates, you’ll get hired. And so it’s just kind of being versatile, I guess, is the, you know.
Doris Swift [00:37:27 – 00:37:29]
Yeah, not have like such a specialty.
Deborah Rutherford [00:37:30 – 00:37:30]
Yeah, yeah.
Doris Swift [00:37:30 – 00:37:32]
So that you could be more accessible.
Deborah Rutherford [00:37:33 – 00:37:38]
Yeah. And so that— and so that was kind of how, um, yeah, so it’s kind of—
Doris Swift [00:37:38 – 00:38:31]
Okay, well, that was interesting. Yeah, I was wondering about that. And You know, and it is amazing to look back over, like you were saying, you know, as where you are now and looking back over where God was all your life, really, and how he does equip. And, you know, how you were given advice in the makeup industry to make yourself available for all different ways to do it, you know, and all different types and to learn things so that you can have a very well-rounded type of resume or whatever. And then how you went on in your writing then to work with Sarah, these other things that are very helpful now in your writing. You’re sharing about your journey with God and sharing about God, you know. And so— and Sarah’s great too. She was my book launch manager.
Doris Swift [00:38:32 – 00:39:22]
So yeah, she does a wonderful job and she’s great with knowing how to do marketing and all of that, which is hard. for an author to know how to do all these things and do them well because, you know, you just want to write. And then, and then sometimes you have to hire people, but it’s nice if you have the kind of knowledge that you can do some things on your own. I kind of put those together when you were talking about your makeup journey and then, you know, your writing journey and all of that and how God does equip us through all the seasons of our life. And, you know, I just, uh, imagine when you— and I, I don’t remember if you had mentioned when you actually stepped away from this career, was it because you said something happened, right?
Deborah Rutherford [00:39:22 – 00:39:48]
Well, we had, we had a, um, it was like a— we had a, um, I, I was praying to one But we also— both my husbands were police. But also we had a writer’s strike not that long ago. I mean, the first, the first, the first was the pandemic, shut everything down.
Doris Swift [00:39:48 – 00:39:50]
Okay, yeah, closed down things, shut them
Deborah Rutherford [00:39:50 – 00:40:45]
down. Yeah, and then that, that was— started to rearrange that industry, and then it’s recovered some And then we had a writer’s strike, which I think was maybe 3 years ago in the US. And when it was actors’ writer’s strike, I think— no, writers. And, and when we strike here, the work doesn’t stop. The work— they take— the producers said, we’ll just go overseas, we’ll go somewhere else. So that’s kind of— we— My husband and I lived through a writer’s strike in Los Angeles in 19— oh, I forget what year it was, 2007, ’08. And, and it was really, really difficult, and we weren’t that prepared. We were like, whoa, because we just thought, oh, the money’s going to keep rolling in.
Deborah Rutherford [00:40:46 – 00:41:09]
And— Right. And we were living our lifestyle. We were living way beyond our means. Um, we had incurred a lot of debt, and it was a very scary moment in our lives, but we lived through it, and we came through it with our marriage and our house. And with the help of Dave Ramsey, we paid off our debt. Um,
Doris Swift [00:41:10 – 00:41:12]
yeah, but that’s another good testimony right there.
Deborah Rutherford [00:41:12 – 00:41:45]
Yeah. Oh my goodness, that, that would— that was the beginning of us, um, seeing how God’s just biblical design for marriage and life works. Because we had, um, the— there was a writer’s strike, then the housing market had fallen through. Um, I had enormous amounts of credit cards on debt. All of a sudden I went up to 20 for whatever that horrible fee was.
Doris Swift [00:41:45 – 00:41:47]
Yeah, yeah, it’s a trap.
Deborah Rutherford [00:41:47 – 00:42:45]
And, and I had no money in the bank. I had no job. And at that time, you know, we, we had lived together 13 years before we got married, and I carried those bad habits into the marriage, keeping the separate bank account, which is, which We changed after Dave Ramsey, with Dave Ramsey, and saw that that’s why you do that. You need to— and you’re in a marriage, you need to live as one, right? Yeah. And he explained that financial infidelity can be worse than physical infidelity. And we were— it was a moment where I thought, am I gonna lose my marriage? Am I gonna lose my house? Am I gonna— everything? Is it just gone now? So thankfully my husband was watching Fox News and saw Dave Ramsey cutting up credit cards. Mm-hmm. And he went, that’s it.
Deborah Rutherford [00:42:46 – 00:43:28]
And so we, you know, started watching his show, listening to him and identifying, you know, we had a hole in the boat. And, you know, because the idea is that you have a career problem or hole in the boat. We had a hole in the boat, big hole in the boat, and we needed it. plug it up. So, um, at the end of every program though, he said, um, you know, that financial freedom is peace, but the true Prince of Peace is Jesus Christ. And we would kind of get a little, you know, snarky and go, why does he have to do that? We don’t want a sermon, we want, you know, advice. Mm-hmm. And, but in 22 months, we had paid it off, $150,000 in credit card debt off.
Deborah Rutherford [00:43:29 – 00:43:43]
And we saw how biblical financial planning works. And we— and that really was some of the beginnings of, well, if that works, what else works?
Doris Swift [00:43:43 – 00:43:43]
Wow.
Deborah Rutherford [00:43:44 – 00:43:53]
And, you know, so it was— it was— he used, you know, God used that as a way to show us what he can do.
Doris Swift [00:43:53 – 00:43:53]
Yeah.
Deborah Rutherford [00:43:54 – 00:44:08]
And, um, and I remember going into, um, we visited, uh, Dave Ramsey’s radio show in Franklin. We went into his, his hall that you go in, the Freedom Hall, and you yell, I’m debt-free! And it was so amazing.
Doris Swift [00:44:08 – 00:44:09]
Wow, that is awesome to
Deborah Rutherford [00:44:09 – 00:44:10]
do that.
Doris Swift [00:44:10 – 00:45:35]
Yeah, I’m so glad that this part of your testimony came out because I think it’s really going to bless a lot of people who are struggling right now and needed some encouragement that God is you know, he has plans for us and good plans, and he wants us to be good stewards of our money, but also of our time and, you know, the— and the things that he puts into our hands. And so, I think that’s wonderful that you and your husband were on the same page in working toward this together, and that it was, you know, you thought everything was lost, but yet it’s when we get to those really dark places is when we really see the light the brightest, you know, that God has, you know, shone into our lives in the light of Christ. So, well, this has been so amazing, uh, Deborah. There’s been some really cool things that have come out that, you know, I— it just went a great direction, and I’m excited about that. And again, Deborah’s book is Prodigal Daughter: Poems of Light for the Lost Ones, and it’s beautiful. And if you could share with the listener, you know, if you have any last thought, and, um, then where the listener can connect with you and find your books and information and all of that.
Deborah Rutherford [00:45:37 – 00:46:39]
This has been a joy to sit with you, Doris, and it’s just to, you know, reflect and talk about, you know, God’s providence’s fingerprints over our lives and his goodness and his good plan and how, um, when we walk with him, we see, we get to participate in it. Mm-hmm. And it’s so just delightful and wonderful. Um, and I wake up, you know, every day being grateful for my salvation, but also grateful and grateful, not also, but grateful that he gave me a book to write to tell people about what he’s done in my life. And, um, so it’s, it’s Wonderful, thank you. And if you want the book, it’s, it’s on Amazon, Barnes& Noble, any of your favorite online bookstores. And my— you can find on my website too at deborarutherford.com. I have a Substack where, where I share my newsletter also there.
Deborah Rutherford [00:46:40 – 00:47:36]
And so you can— that’s Deborah Rutherford Substack. And Mostly active on Instagram and Facebook under Deborah Rutherford Writes. And those kind of places that you can find me, you can find Prodigal Daughter. And just like to share encouragement and hope. And it’s just, you know, this world can be very difficult. Mm-hmm. And, but I think with Jesus, he gives us the ability to, to hold that in one hand and in the other hand hold joy and his promises and his glory. And, and so that helps us, you know, it strengthens us, sustains us, comforts us, all of that through this, this, the hard parts of life.
Doris Swift [00:47:36 – 00:47:37]
Mm-hmm.
Deborah Rutherford [00:47:38 – 00:47:39]
Yeah, yeah,
Doris Swift [00:47:39 – 00:47:45]
yes, that’s so beautifully said. And, and thank you so much for being on the show, and I hope to have you back on.
Deborah Rutherford [00:47:46 – 00:48:05]
Thank you, thank you very much. And, um, you know, it’s, it’s, uh, I, I know that, that everyone’s journey is different, but in this sense, we’re all the same because of Jesus. And so, um, Yeah.
Doris Swift [00:48:05 – 00:48:56]
Yeah, that’s beautiful. And, um, so when you were sharing about all the ways that they can connect with you, I’ll put those links in the show notes so they can find you. And yeah, so this has been an amazing conversation, and I loved hearing all about your story because I knew some of it but not all of it, and now I know, and also our Fierce Calling audience as well. So thank you for sharing your heart with us, the hard times, the hard places, and the good places, and the blessings. And they all really are part of one story. So just to encourage, I always like to say that our past story doesn’t discredit our grace story. It becomes part of it, and it is part of it. And people need to hear the hard things that we’ve been through.
Doris Swift [00:48:56 – 00:49:42] So that, you know, first of all, we can share how God brought us through these things, but also so that they can see where true freedom comes from, and it’s Jesus. He says in John 14, He’s the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father but through Him. So we just want to say the name and praise the name of Jesus. Amen. Thank you so much, friends, for listening and viewing today wherever you’re taking this content in. And I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who’s taking action where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect, which is their fierce calling. Until then, friends, have a blessed week and I will talk to you soon.
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